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	<title>Comments on: Why Getting Plato Right Does Matter: A Follow-up on my McLaren Review</title>
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	<link>http://www.christianhumanist.org/chb/2010/03/why-getting-plato-right-does-matter-a-follow-up-on-my-mclaren-review/</link>
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		<title>By: Caricature and constructive critique &#171; John Meunier&#039;s Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.christianhumanist.org/chb/2010/03/why-getting-plato-right-does-matter-a-follow-up-on-my-mclaren-review/comment-page-1/#comment-874</link>
		<dc:creator>Caricature and constructive critique &#171; John Meunier&#039;s Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Aug 2010 02:54:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christianhumanist.org/chb/?p=290#comment-874</guid>
		<description>[...] another response to McLaren that goes after him in much more direct terms. So I’ll repeat my criticism: McLaren’s move in A [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] another response to McLaren that goes after him in much more direct terms. So I’ll repeat my criticism: McLaren’s move in A [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://www.christianhumanist.org/chb/2010/03/why-getting-plato-right-does-matter-a-follow-up-on-my-mclaren-review/comment-page-1/#comment-156</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 19:12:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christianhumanist.org/chb/?p=290#comment-156</guid>
		<description>I actually thought the same thing when I saw that McLaren linked to it.  It was especially odd, I thought, because McLaren has &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.google.com/search?&amp;q=site:brianmclaren.net+%22my+friend%22&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a tendency call people his friend&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I actually thought the same thing when I saw that McLaren linked to it.  It was especially odd, I thought, because McLaren has <a href="http://www.google.com/search?&amp;q=site:brianmclaren.net+%22my+friend%22" rel="nofollow">a tendency call people his friend</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Gilmour</title>
		<link>http://www.christianhumanist.org/chb/2010/03/why-getting-plato-right-does-matter-a-follow-up-on-my-mclaren-review/comment-page-1/#comment-137</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Gilmour</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 05:18:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christianhumanist.org/chb/?p=290#comment-137</guid>
		<description>Yes, that&#039;s the sort of review I was hoping someone else could write so that I could remain narrowly focused on Plato and pedantry. ;)

[addendum, 3/7/10: Robert, I do have to admit a bit of amusement that at McLaren&#039;s own blog, he refers to McKnight&#039;s review not as &quot;my old buddy Scot&#039;s take&quot; but as &quot;the Christianity Today review.&quot;  I shouldn&#039;t be that way, but I suppose one should confess one&#039;s small-mindedness. :) ]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, that&#8217;s the sort of review I was hoping someone else could write so that I could remain narrowly focused on Plato and pedantry. <img src='http://www.christianhumanist.org/chb/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>[addendum, 3/7/10: Robert, I do have to admit a bit of amusement that at McLaren's own blog, he refers to McKnight's review not as "my old buddy Scot's take" but as "the Christianity Today review."  I shouldn't be that way, but I suppose one should confess one's small-mindedness. <img src='http://www.christianhumanist.org/chb/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  ]</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.christianhumanist.org/chb/2010/03/why-getting-plato-right-does-matter-a-follow-up-on-my-mclaren-review/comment-page-1/#comment-134</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Mar 2010 00:20:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christianhumanist.org/chb/?p=290#comment-134</guid>
		<description>Aha!  Scot McKnight wrote the review you hinted at in your quotable moment Nate.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2010/march/3.59.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aha!  Scot McKnight wrote the review you hinted at in your quotable moment Nate.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2010/march/3.59.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2010/march/3.59.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Gilmour</title>
		<link>http://www.christianhumanist.org/chb/2010/03/why-getting-plato-right-does-matter-a-follow-up-on-my-mclaren-review/comment-page-1/#comment-127</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Gilmour</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Mar 2010 07:43:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christianhumanist.org/chb/?p=290#comment-127</guid>
		<description>Ah, okay.  I suppose I&#039;d come back and say, expanding on your point, that what counts for victory as well as when one can declare victory are both at stake, and I&#039;d note again that, if one derives the criteria for victory from McLaren&#039;s own evolutionary/Hegelian scheme, then what you label as &quot;goods of excellence&quot; (a very Macintyre phrase, so I like it) are in fact those goods that McLaren claims to be after, so getting Plato right does in fact matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, okay.  I suppose I&#8217;d come back and say, expanding on your point, that what counts for victory as well as when one can declare victory are both at stake, and I&#8217;d note again that, if one derives the criteria for victory from McLaren&#8217;s own evolutionary/Hegelian scheme, then what you label as &#8220;goods of excellence&#8221; (a very Macintyre phrase, so I like it) are in fact those goods that McLaren claims to be after, so getting Plato right does in fact matter.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew (the challenging Andrew)</title>
		<link>http://www.christianhumanist.org/chb/2010/03/why-getting-plato-right-does-matter-a-follow-up-on-my-mclaren-review/comment-page-1/#comment-125</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew (the challenging Andrew)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Mar 2010 22:02:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christianhumanist.org/chb/?p=290#comment-125</guid>
		<description>Nate

The reference to Rorty was a postscript, the thrust of my post was that there does appear to be an apparent misunderstanding, by those who took issue with your review, and that misunderstanding appears to be a confusion about whether you were speaking about effective or excellent (read virtuous) communication.
It is only if there is no misunderstanding, but rather a rebuttal that there are no issues of excellence at stake, only issues of effectiveness, that the Rortian postscript will apply. If that were to prove to be the case, then your remarks would by no means be irrelevant since whether they would be regarded as valid is yet to be decided, thus obliquely raising one of the pragmatic problems with truth-as-victory which is the elusiveness of a point in time when victory may be declared.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nate</p>
<p>The reference to Rorty was a postscript, the thrust of my post was that there does appear to be an apparent misunderstanding, by those who took issue with your review, and that misunderstanding appears to be a confusion about whether you were speaking about effective or excellent (read virtuous) communication.<br />
It is only if there is no misunderstanding, but rather a rebuttal that there are no issues of excellence at stake, only issues of effectiveness, that the Rortian postscript will apply. If that were to prove to be the case, then your remarks would by no means be irrelevant since whether they would be regarded as valid is yet to be decided, thus obliquely raising one of the pragmatic problems with truth-as-victory which is the elusiveness of a point in time when victory may be declared.</p>
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		<title>By: Adobe CS3 Design Courses In Interactive Format Described &#124; Mobile Phones</title>
		<link>http://www.christianhumanist.org/chb/2010/03/why-getting-plato-right-does-matter-a-follow-up-on-my-mclaren-review/comment-page-1/#comment-124</link>
		<dc:creator>Adobe CS3 Design Courses In Interactive Format Described &#124; Mobile Phones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Mar 2010 19:51:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christianhumanist.org/chb/?p=290#comment-124</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure how this post relates to what I&#039;m talking about, but it&#039;s just bizarre enough that I had to approve the link.  
--NPG

[...] Why Getting Plato Right Does Matter: A Follow-up on my McLaren Review &#8211; Philosophy Theology &amp;#... [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure how this post relates to what I&#8217;m talking about, but it&#8217;s just bizarre enough that I had to approve the link.<br />
&#8211;NPG</p>
<p>[...] Why Getting Plato Right Does Matter: A Follow-up on my McLaren Review &#8211; Philosophy Theology &amp;#&#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Gilmour</title>
		<link>http://www.christianhumanist.org/chb/2010/03/why-getting-plato-right-does-matter-a-follow-up-on-my-mclaren-review/comment-page-1/#comment-121</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Gilmour</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Mar 2010 17:52:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christianhumanist.org/chb/?p=290#comment-121</guid>
		<description>Isn&#039;t that what I just said? ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t that what I just said? <img src='http://www.christianhumanist.org/chb/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.christianhumanist.org/chb/2010/03/why-getting-plato-right-does-matter-a-follow-up-on-my-mclaren-review/comment-page-1/#comment-120</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Mar 2010 17:09:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christianhumanist.org/chb/?p=290#comment-120</guid>
		<description>Petulant?  Hardly.  I think of them as your Chesterton moments.  ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Petulant?  Hardly.  I think of them as your Chesterton moments.  <img src='http://www.christianhumanist.org/chb/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Gilmour</title>
		<link>http://www.christianhumanist.org/chb/2010/03/why-getting-plato-right-does-matter-a-follow-up-on-my-mclaren-review/comment-page-1/#comment-119</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Gilmour</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Mar 2010 16:43:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.christianhumanist.org/chb/?p=290#comment-119</guid>
		<description>Robert, you do have a way of finding my most petulant moments and highlighting them, don&#039;t you? :)

I probably should have written more on the Hegelian angle, but I figured the Calvinist blogosphere would pick up on that more than they did.  That McLaren considers himself &quot;more evolved&quot; than his interlocutors and that he sees the &quot;seeds&quot; of future developments inherent in those stages&#039; contradictions reads like something straight out of &lt;i&gt;Phenomenology of Spirit&lt;/i&gt;, and it&#039;s a progressive view of history that I don&#039;t share.  I do think that dialectic reasoning is a mighty handy tool for doing history and for other pursuits, but I suppose I&#039;m suspicious of that particular metanarrative.  (Oh, wait.  I thought the people incredulous in the face of metanarrative were the... no, it can&#039;t be.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert, you do have a way of finding my most petulant moments and highlighting them, don&#8217;t you? <img src='http://www.christianhumanist.org/chb/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I probably should have written more on the Hegelian angle, but I figured the Calvinist blogosphere would pick up on that more than they did.  That McLaren considers himself &#8220;more evolved&#8221; than his interlocutors and that he sees the &#8220;seeds&#8221; of future developments inherent in those stages&#8217; contradictions reads like something straight out of <i>Phenomenology of Spirit</i>, and it&#8217;s a progressive view of history that I don&#8217;t share.  I do think that dialectic reasoning is a mighty handy tool for doing history and for other pursuits, but I suppose I&#8217;m suspicious of that particular metanarrative.  (Oh, wait.  I thought the people incredulous in the face of metanarrative were the&#8230; no, it can&#8217;t be.)</p>
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